According to the BBC, US and Egyptian SF trainers are trying to catch our Libyan rebel kinda-sorta allies up on the classes they missed on Revolution 101.If this hero is an example, they have a lifetime's worth of job security.
Jesus wept. TASF. And W may be SF, as well. We'll have to see.
Chief, 2 beltfeds in the pic.1 is unidentifiable, but the Rombone soldier of fiction dude is packing a FN which is a world class crowd pleaser. If this is representative of their gear, then they are well armed. jim
What caught my eye (since you'd mentioned it in the MRAP pic, jim) was the fucking gomer leaning on the gun muzzle-down in the...well, let's hope not the dirt. That and the Pancho Villa belts of ammunition looped around his torso like so many explosive leis.
I'd be willing to bet our Continental Line knew better than to shove the muzzles of their flintlocks into the dirt, at least not five minutes after Steuben showed up...
The first thought I had when I saw this guy was "Oh, fuck me sideways, another Third World Rambo..." He looked like half the Contras I saw slouching towards the Honduran border in the Eighties; all loaded down with good kit but dirty, badly maintained, rounds all dingy and dented (or even corroded) from being exposed like this...the guy was a soldier's nightmare. And you couldn't tell him that, either, because he thought he was freaking the Chesty Puller of West Buttfuckistan...
I have no idea what kind of fighting men the Libyan tribes produce, but they don't seem to be hep to 20th Century war, and ISTM that the people training these guys will have a tough job taking these desert warriors and making soldiers of them.
But jim does have a point; hell of a good gun, the GPMG.
Chief, I've been thinking about my cmt on the muzzles. Since then i've seen a photo of an SSG and his wpn is muzzle down against a wall. A dirty dusty wall EXCEPT it appears that the flash suppressor is taped up. This is legit, and in SOG it was common to do the same in the jungle. We had a local problem of moisture forming in the chamber when we did so. This was alleviated by clearing the chamber after a wake up. Breaking the seal solved the problem. So maybe the troops are taping up. Now for Rambone. Let's pretend he's resting his muzzle on his boot. I'm in a gentle mood today. Oh, and hopefully he won't shoot his foot off, and a 7.62 will shoot his foot off. The MG he's packig retails for 15 K $ It's surely a quality piece which leads to my next point. The Belgium's will sell to anyone with the cash.Or the credit. But then again we are fairly similar. jim
von Steuben did not show up until 1778. The Libyan Revolution is just a few weeks old and their army it appears is made up of college and high school boys, and one or two veterans (or wannabees). Imagine what the Continental Line looked like in the first six months after its birth. It was a horde of raggedy-ass New England farm boys with squirrel guns, fowling pieces, and a few old Brown Besses left over from their father's or grandfather's service at Louisbourg or Havana.
True, the one thing they had going for them that the Libyans do not was their intimate familiarity with those weapons, which they had used since (or probably before) puberty. Maybe there were some runaway apprentices or manufactory boys from Boston and Portsmouth who knew nothing of shooting irons and ended up killing themselves or their compatriots. But hopefully none had the Arab propensity of shooting at the sky.
mike, I find it humorous that any group would start a revolt and then figure out the details. I think the Libyan rebels are proficient with small arms, but can't work as fire teams and above. i'd further surmise that they don't groove on the 2 way rifle range. The militia's of pre-revolt US had plenty of frontier experience, and were competent at the unit level. Don't forget the Fr/Ind Wars. There was a book out a few years ago that dispelled the myth that all coloinal residents were riflemen. The Brown Bess was the AK of that period. jim
My point in that post from last night was that the troops in the first few months of our Revolutionary War were not much better than the Libyans pictured above. What saved us was patience (8 years worth), good allies, plus we learned fast, and we had an arrogant and overconfident enemy. The Libyans should be as lucky.
The Brown Bess was probably more effective than the AK when it was used in volley fire by highly trained troops who could load in what - two or three times a minute? The raw American troops in the first year of the war were nowhere near that level of training or experience.
The small number of Brown Besses used by American troops in 1775 were 30 or 40 year old hand-me downs from the War of Austrian Succession and the French and Indian War.
And yes there were some vets from the campaigns of those wars still fit to fight in 75, plus even some former soldiers of Bonnie Prince Charlie, but not many. The great majority of Continental Army soldiers were beardless - not graybeards.
I doubt if any of those Benghazi boys have had militia training to fight off Tuareg raids.
Probably the southern desert guys who may have had stood guard duty on the oasis are fighting for MQ while he still has money. And the Tuaregs too will be for him until his bank runs dry.
Mike, I roger your points. My contention is that the militias experience was institutional as well as personal. The Brown B was faster to load than a rifled barrel. jim
If this hero is an example, they have a lifetime's worth of job security.
I'm not much irritated by this guy, but a lot by the many, many technicals the foreign TV teams seem to love so much.
ReplyDeleteChief,
ReplyDelete2 beltfeds in the pic.1 is unidentifiable, but the Rombone soldier of fiction dude is packing a FN which is a world class crowd pleaser.
If this is representative of their gear, then they are well armed.
jim
Trainers not like this, I hope.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIvHdbf02Kc&feature=
:)
bb
I believe our own dear revolutionaries looked not much better back in 1775.
ReplyDeleteMay they be blessed with a George Washington of their own, and a few Lafayettes, Duportails, Pulaskis, Koskiuzkos, von Steubens, and de Kalbs.
What caught my eye (since you'd mentioned it in the MRAP pic, jim) was the fucking gomer leaning on the gun muzzle-down in the...well, let's hope not the dirt. That and the Pancho Villa belts of ammunition looped around his torso like so many explosive leis.
ReplyDeleteI'd be willing to bet our Continental Line knew better than to shove the muzzles of their flintlocks into the dirt, at least not five minutes after Steuben showed up...
The first thought I had when I saw this guy was "Oh, fuck me sideways, another Third World Rambo..." He looked like half the Contras I saw slouching towards the Honduran border in the Eighties; all loaded down with good kit but dirty, badly maintained, rounds all dingy and dented (or even corroded) from being exposed like this...the guy was a soldier's nightmare. And you couldn't tell him that, either, because he thought he was freaking the Chesty Puller of West Buttfuckistan...
I have no idea what kind of fighting men the Libyan tribes produce, but they don't seem to be hep to 20th Century war, and ISTM that the people training these guys will have a tough job taking these desert warriors and making soldiers of them.
But jim does have a point; hell of a good gun, the GPMG.
Chief,
ReplyDeleteI've been thinking about my cmt on the muzzles. Since then i've seen a photo of an SSG and his wpn is muzzle down against a wall. A dirty dusty wall EXCEPT it appears that the flash suppressor is taped up. This is legit, and in SOG it was common to do the same in the jungle. We had a local problem of moisture forming in the chamber when we did so. This was alleviated by clearing the chamber after a wake up. Breaking the seal solved the problem.
So maybe the troops are taping up.
Now for Rambone. Let's pretend he's resting his muzzle on his boot. I'm in a gentle mood today.
Oh, and hopefully he won't shoot his foot off, and a 7.62 will shoot his foot off.
The MG he's packig retails for 15 K $ It's surely a quality piece which leads to my next point. The Belgium's will sell to anyone with the cash.Or the credit.
But then again we are fairly similar.
jim
Chief:
ReplyDeletevon Steuben did not show up until 1778. The Libyan Revolution is just a few weeks old and their army it appears is made up of college and high school boys, and one or two veterans (or wannabees). Imagine what the Continental Line looked like in the first six months after its birth. It was a horde of raggedy-ass New England farm boys with squirrel guns, fowling pieces, and a few old Brown Besses left over from their father's or grandfather's service at Louisbourg or Havana.
True, the one thing they had going for them that the Libyans do not was their intimate familiarity with those weapons, which they had used since (or probably before) puberty. Maybe there were some runaway apprentices or manufactory boys from Boston and Portsmouth who knew nothing of shooting irons and ended up killing themselves or their compatriots. But hopefully none had the Arab propensity of shooting at the sky.
mike,
ReplyDeleteI find it humorous that any group would start a revolt and then figure out the details.
I think the Libyan rebels are proficient with small arms, but can't work as fire teams and above. i'd further surmise that they don't groove on the 2 way rifle range.
The militia's of pre-revolt US had plenty of frontier experience, and were competent at the unit level. Don't forget the Fr/Ind Wars.
There was a book out a few years ago that dispelled the myth that all coloinal residents were riflemen.
The Brown Bess was the AK of that period.
jim
Chief,
ReplyDeleteI must add that this pic looks like a SOF auto wpns shoot.
Check out the mag sometime.
jim
jim -
ReplyDeleteMy point in that post from last night was that the troops in the first few months of our Revolutionary War were not much better than the Libyans pictured above. What saved us was patience (8 years worth), good allies, plus we learned fast, and we had an arrogant and overconfident enemy. The Libyans should be as lucky.
The Brown Bess was probably more effective than the AK when it was used in volley fire by highly trained troops who could load in what - two or three times a minute? The raw American troops in the first year of the war were nowhere near that level of training or experience.
The small number of Brown Besses used by American troops in 1775 were 30 or 40 year old hand-me downs from the War of Austrian Succession and the French and Indian War.
And yes there were some vets from the campaigns of those wars still fit to fight in 75, plus even some former soldiers of Bonnie Prince Charlie, but not many. The great majority of Continental Army soldiers were beardless - not graybeards.
Probably what saved us early was that some of those beardless boys came from villages that required some militia training in case of Indian raids.
ReplyDeleteI doubt if any of those Benghazi boys have had militia training to fight off Tuareg raids.
ReplyDeleteProbably the southern desert guys who may have had stood guard duty on the oasis are fighting for MQ while he still has money. And the Tuaregs too will be for him until his bank runs dry.
Mike,
ReplyDeleteI roger your points.
My contention is that the militias experience was institutional as well as personal.
The Brown B was faster to load than a rifled barrel.
jim