tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post2202406840919446492..comments2023-10-30T06:31:05.501-07:00Comments on MilPub: Losing my religionFDChiefhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comBlogger90125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-25133985072127072672015-01-21T01:20:50.243-08:002015-01-21T01:20:50.243-08:00There ain't gonna be any enlightened approach ...There ain't gonna be any enlightened approach to the problem when the discourse is dominated by people like so called "terror expert" <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11338985/Fox-News-terror-expert-says-everyone-in-Birmingham-is-a-Muslim.html" rel="nofollow">Steven Emerson</a> or <a href="http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/19/politics/jindal-no-go-zones-london/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29" rel="nofollow">Governor Bobby Jindal</a> who make baseless claims about the threat of Islam, such as their stories that European countries have surrendered sovereignty to Muslim rule in cities they call "no-go zones". Such fear mongering only fuels the idea of a clash of civilizations. First they take over Mosul and Birmingham. Who knows what's next.<br /><br />Of course, Emerson backtracked and blamed sources he should have checked, and Jindal simply refused to provide specifics, but their right wing fans see these falsehoods are exposing the truth. In short, neither can provide a specific example, but millions are now convinced these no-go zones exist and, aided and abetted by weak governments, portend an existential threat to Western civilization. Just another version of "we need to kill them over there before they come here to kill us".Aviator47https://www.blogger.com/profile/05585964386930142907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-39998418076601761552015-01-20T08:12:08.167-08:002015-01-20T08:12:08.167-08:00Chief,
i fail to understand how a bar keep could e...Chief,<br />i fail to understand how a bar keep could expect any tips if he insults his patrons.<br />also Tourettes is a disabling condition and making fun of it is not very friendly and is not ADA compliant.<br />jimjim hruskahttp://rangeragainstwar.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-16901042478042230052015-01-20T05:45:48.373-08:002015-01-20T05:45:48.373-08:00FDC - If those are the US' interests how do yo...FDC - If those are the US' interests how do you know? You ascertained as much by reading the tea leaves or has some elected rep actually come out and said these things?<br /><br />Any how, 1 seems like it should be Israel's problem (as you and I agreed upthread). Why is it incumbent on the US to provide security to ensure 2? All modern nations are trading nations and have the interest. Also, the ME countries have the same interest. So why is it all (or mostly) on the US? With regards to 3, if it was ever true, then it sure seems that something has changed with all the regime toppling we have done in the past few years.<br /><br />no oneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-88500332252417791112015-01-19T23:23:11.238-08:002015-01-19T23:23:11.238-08:00"ISTM that the "best" thing the Wes..."ISTM that the "best" thing the West can do is to keep calm and not let morons gin up some sort of "conflict of civilizations..."<br /><br />This here, is the best thing we can do with a concentrated effort of forcing the "Lets do something for somethings sake!" crowd to actually explain what they want to do...because, lets be honest, when that crowd begins to talk, they sound reasonable for the first three sentences, and then their off and running into Crazy.<br /><br />But yes, in our backyard it's all a Law Enforcement Issue...and should be nothing more than that. People who seek to kill are murderers regardless of their motivation. <br /><br />"I killed him because he insulted my prophet!" is not considered justifiable homicide in the west. <br /><br />I can only imagine what the media here in the United States would editorialize if a Christian killed another because they said, "Jesusfuckingchrist!" and used the raison de etre, "he insulted my savior!" They would say, "Religious Extremists uses lame excuse to murder another human being." and it would be buried in the local section, not the front page.<br /><br />Our media needs to do that, too. <br /><br />sheerahkahn<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-60534065488061762732015-01-19T19:18:59.023-08:002015-01-19T19:18:59.023-08:00Horseshit, Lisa; you know better than that.
"...Horseshit, Lisa; you know better than that.<br /><br /><i>"O mankind! Allah created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, <b>that you may know each other (not that you despise each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you.</b> And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)."</i> Nobel Qur'an (49:13)<br /><br />All the monotheistic religions make quack-quack noises about "love thy neighbor". But people, being people, hear just the quacking on the way out to the shed to sharpen the axe.<br /><br />Now, admittedly, the Muslims and the Jews are a little closer to their desert-patriarch roots; their Gods are the gods of a tribal chieftan - loving to the tribe but bloody murder to outsiders. Christianity has to do a little more creative juggling to get around its' Messiah's commands about turning cheeks and Golden Rules.<br /><br />But..as we know; generally speaking the Christianity of the actual Christ hasn't been tried and found difficult. It has been found difficult and never tried.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-55420135403211808102015-01-19T19:12:29.697-08:002015-01-19T19:12:29.697-08:00I think that religion is only irrelevant, jim, if ...I think that religion is only irrelevant, jim, if it doesn't continue to throw out violence based on the religion. If we were having this argument in 1588 we'd have no disagreement; religion - whether you were Catholic and I was Protestant - was fightin' words. I couldn't trust you if I was an Anglican and you were and English Catholic any more than you could trust me if you were a French Catholic and I were a Huguenot.<br /><br />I'm not arguing about "law enforcement". Yes, when these jokers turn up in Paris or New York or Puxatawney they're a police matter and should be and (usually) are handled as such.<br /><br />(Tho I'd argue that the fearmongering and hysteria ABOUT these jokers has done much to fuel the militarized police that tend turn up so much more in the past decade...)<br /><br />My point had nothing to do with tactics and was, and is, about "strategy", specifically, is there anything that the West can do to help "defuse" this Islamic War of Religion? Can the Western world do anything to help the way Muslims, most Muslims, 99.999% of Muslims view their religion become more like most Westerners view THEIR religions; as hobbies, as distractions, as moral guidlines for their own lives...rather than reasons to go out and try and violently struggle with others about those other people's religions.<br /><br />And what I'm getting - from here, as well as from most other sources - is pretty much a "no". This war for Islam will need to be fought out amongst Muslims. ISTM that the "best" thing the West can do is to keep calm and not let morons gin up some sort of "conflict of civilizations" when the jihadis represent no more than a subset of the Islamic world. The West can do best by avoiding the sort of fucktardry that the Bushies came up with (not that they were the first, only the worst; even Eisenhower didn't think of Operation Blue Bat as a long-term occupation of Lebanon...) that we've discussed here.<br /><br />And that's really all I have to say on the subject.<br /><br />I'm done here; who's next? We need a new post for the New Year...FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-54143579844437051652015-01-19T19:11:43.225-08:002015-01-19T19:11:43.225-08:00Amid the Tourette's, I did come across this:
...Amid the Tourette's, I did come across this:<br /><br /><i>"...just what are "our interests". For the better part of my 51 years on this planet I have been hearing about these interests, but nobody using the term has ever explained exactly what those are.</i>"<br /><br />Let me try using small, simple words.<br /><br />1. Support for Israel<br /><br />You and I might not agree, but that is and has been a U.S. "interest" since 1948. I'd argue that "interest" is not truly a vital one, but there's a very large constituency for it in this country and good luck trying to get that off the board.<br /><br />2. Free movement through the transportation chokepoints<br /><br />As a trading nation the U.S. has an interest in ensuring free movement through places like Suez, the Red Sea, and around the Horn of Africa.<br /><br />3. "Stability"<br /><br />In the sense that unstable regions and failed states, with their religious implosions, civil wars and assorted production of people with little or no skills other than violence are a problem for large, wealthy polities like the U.S., and the simplicity of getting around the world in the 21st Century means that these regions can cause trouble far beyond their borders.<br /><br />Note what I am NOT saying; I'm not saying that any of these things means that the U.S. needs to spend blood and treasure in these places, or that I'm recommending a particular course of action for any nation in any of these places.<br /><br />But you implied that the U.S. has "no national interests" in this troubled region which is nonsense. You can legitimately argue that there are national interests MORE vital than the above, but not that the U.S. HAS no national interests in the Middle East.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-90744690062147690942015-01-19T19:04:03.422-08:002015-01-19T19:04:03.422-08:00Wait. I DO have one more thing:
"Chief got ...Wait. I DO have one more thing:<br /><br /><i>"Chief got on a tangent with his anti-religion trip"</i><br /><br />This wasn't a tangent, it was <i>a whole new discussion</i>. It wasn't about Belgium or France or police raids or tactics, but about the whole bigger question of <i>"Is there some sort of strategic approach the West could/should be taking to the Islamic world's internal upheaval, similar to the "containment" methodology used in the Cold War with the Soviet bloc".</i><br /><br />That has everything to do with religion, or the lack of same, which everyone else around this joint has been trying to discuss between your repeated outbursts of Tourette's Syndrome...FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-36416798287766493092015-01-19T15:37:28.824-08:002015-01-19T15:37:28.824-08:00Jim, Yes, What you say is basic common sense. I do...Jim, Yes, What you say is basic common sense. I don't see how it's disputed. Is it disputed? Chief got on a tangent with his anti-religion trip. The Belgians did right.<br /><br />no oneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-80906012314313504852015-01-19T12:51:39.245-08:002015-01-19T12:51:39.245-08:00To all,
the original argument that chief used as a...To all,<br />the original argument that chief used as a rationale for this entry HAS NOT been answered.<br />i think my original point was that we in western society must deal with the issue: therefore we must utilize police reaction to counter the threat.<br />this is more important than the religion question since our laws allow religion, but not criminal activity. therefore religion is irrelevant.<br />i said in one of my articles that police should give consideration to islamist hostage takers and assume that they need to be assaulted as soon as the police can muster the teams. this is just/legal and well within our philosophical system . after i said his thats exactly what the french and belgium police did. We deal with actions, not religion.<br />oh yeah, chief may have been arguing, but i thought lisa and myself were discussing the issue.<br />jim<br />jim hruskahttp://rangeragainstwar.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-55450444294831016162015-01-19T06:02:25.576-08:002015-01-19T06:02:25.576-08:00Are the perpetrators religious? Some of the 9/11 ...Are the perpetrators religious? Some of the 9/11 actors spent their last night in a strip club. The Paris gang seemed motivated by that brief flash of meaning that comes with suicide-by-cop. Shouts of “Allahu Akbar” sound like what you hear at high-school football games. Propagandists for these deeds – the preachers of hate – seem obsessed with the West and its appeals. I don’t pretend to understand fundamentalism. All I can say is that the few fundamentalists I have known – Mennonites, a handful of Sikhs and supercharged Catholic believers – seemed too busy with their own projects to care much about how other people live. Podunk Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-25964512716491930352015-01-17T14:36:40.249-08:002015-01-17T14:36:40.249-08:00"Our interests" seems to be dictated by ..."Our interests" seems to be dictated by economics, money if you will, and not by any sense of importance. Oil once was the predominant reason the US was involved in the Middle East, but it would seem with Peak Oil come and gone, the irrelevance of the Middle East is becoming glaring. <br />What do they offer?<br />I'm not saying this to belittle, but rather from an economic stand point...the Middle East, without oil, has squat to offer in terms of tradable goods to the world around it.<br /><br />Really, Saudi Arabia is economically doomed without Oil.<br />All those Arabian countries are economically doomed without Oil.<br />The entire Middle East is economically doomed without Oil.<br /><br />And what will be left is a very large population of have-nots, with a very small population of haves telling the former what to do...and considering how the Imams and the Mullahs with the blessing of the Government are currently laying all of their ills and faults, some of which is their own making at the feet of the West and Israel...I don't see peace coming to the Middle East till they get tired of swimming in each others blood.<br /><br />Sorry, but the human condition is at work here, and the very human predilection to blame others so that their own faults remain un=noticed is very strong in the Middle East.<br /><br />Far easier to blame outsiders for your problems than to admit your own failures.<br /><br />As I said for ISIS, Al Qaeda, and the various Al Jumbalya, and Al-ShatoNmyhat these groups, in the grand scheme of history, are meaningless anecdotes to the greater subject that the governments of these various countries were no better than the rebels seeking to over-throw them.<br /><br />My sympathy to the quiet guy who just wanted to grow oranges and raise chickens...I'm sorry sir, who ever you are, I am truly sorry.<br /><br />sheerahkahnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-88341049583725643012015-01-17T12:36:11.773-08:002015-01-17T12:36:11.773-08:00FDC, 100% agree with your Israel outlook. I think ...FDC, 100% agree with your Israel outlook. I think that there are many in DC that are not so objective. In those cases of unqualified support for Israel that are something other than pay-off and intimidation by the Israeli lobby, I do concede that religion is a problem. A lot of right wing religious nuts* in this country are pro-Israel (over US interests) because of events prophesized in the New testament and Jesus returning and all of that. Some of these people really want the end of times and see Israel as a key to making that happen.<br /><br />* I am not one who interprets the Bible literally. Actually, I think it is pretty low grade spiritual material. I prefer other spiritual practices.<br /><br />no one<br /><br />no oneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-10137954629634580192015-01-17T12:22:49.482-08:002015-01-17T12:22:49.482-08:00But at least Christianity has the overlay of "...But at least Christianity has the overlay of "love thy brother". Correct, it took awhile to seep in (and one might well say still, it has not yet), but Islam has no such pretense: "Kill the infidel".<br /><br />The pretense vis-a-vis Islam is that this dictum does not exist, and that it is a religion which touts love through-and-through. One need only read the Quran (granted for most of us, in translation) to find this difference.<br /><br />Of course, we're all thoroughly modern men who find this to be a quaint albeit problematic anachronism, a misunderstanding. But Christianity is also a quaint anachronism, and we are capable of parsing it's dictates fairly well (and amending those that no longer serve, if dyed-in-the wool believers would admit to this reality.)<br /><br />What is problematic for us in the West is the idea that the violence we witness in the name of Allah is actually in the name of Allah, and committed by thoroughly modern acolytes. It's not a Lone Wolf's interpretation, for he would be swiftly disowned.<br /><br />--Lisarangeragainstwarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02126542922536584950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-87322632634291877042015-01-17T05:56:52.260-08:002015-01-17T05:56:52.260-08:00Now here is a big question: When we are told that...Now here is a big question: When we are told that we need to go over there to defend our interests, just what are "our interests". For the better part of my 51 years on this planet I have been hearing about these interests, but nobody using the term has ever explained exactly what those are. <br /><br />What are our interests in the ME that would cause us to continue the foreign policy that we, here, agree has caused the jihadi reaction?<br /><br />Because our proposed solution depends on our ability to disengage. In order to disengage we need to be able to either forego these "interests" or find a new and better way of looking out for them.<br /><br />no oneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-11268621881641429592015-01-17T05:50:36.597-08:002015-01-17T05:50:36.597-08:00ooops. meant to say there a fair degree of "p...ooops. meant to say there a fair degree of "pro-western" sentiment. My typo would reflect the current state of affairs better than the past.<br /><br />no oneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-16794603239087698792015-01-17T05:43:30.057-08:002015-01-17T05:43:30.057-08:00FDC - We more or less agree!?? I'm going to ha...FDC - We more or less agree!?? I'm going to have to re-think my position. Where did I get it wrong?<br /><br />But seriously - you are correct. The region, despite tribalism, zero-sum business philosophy, etc. and, especially relevant, despite Islam was, as recently as the 40s and 50s, benign towards the West. That is, at least, also my perception. In fact, I'd go further and say that there was even a fair degree of pre-Western sentiment.<br /><br />So we get to still disagree b/c I say "especially despite Islam". I feel better now.<br /><br />I repeat that the form of Islam that is a problem now is a means of establishing and maintaining esprit de corps among fighters, but that fight was already on. <br /><br />It is difficult to get a good background on the development of "the fight" and of radical Islam's role in it. When I read Western sources there are a bunch of theories based on Western social sciences. These have, to my mind, a veneer of pin headed ivy league bullshit and, often, outright pro-Western propaganda. When I read Islamic sources it's all about the evil imperial Western pigs and their rotten little dog Israel. <br /><br />I tend to lean toward giving more credence to the self-assessment of the people that are actually under study ( in this case the Islamists). At least we can understand how they *feel* and what they *claim* motivates them. However, people are self-justifying. So a large grain of salt is recommended; just as with the Western sources. <br /><br />In the final analysis, there most certainly is not a single cause; instead a variety of internal and external pressures and opportunities - some synergizing and some ameliorating.<br /><br />no one<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-47287515093463285582015-01-17T05:22:57.406-08:002015-01-17T05:22:57.406-08:00If one were a numbers cruncher, the number of extr...If one were a numbers cruncher, the number of extremists battling their fellow Muslims dwarf the numbers found or estimated to be conducting "terror" in the West. Yet there is abject fear and constant poking at them in their homelands. Makes no sense. As you say, Chief, it's a monster of our own making, and we continue to nurture it.<br /><br />Enforce the law at home. Let them fight it out amongst themselves in their homelands, while we do no harm.Aviator47https://www.blogger.com/profile/05585964386930142907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-15765778283651179572015-01-16T20:18:59.354-08:002015-01-16T20:18:59.354-08:00Would that I could send the MSR's to drown in ...Would that I could send the MSR's to drown in their foreign swamps to validate their crusade. Salafists aren't the only ones who need to burn through a generation or two. Yin, yang, baby.<br /><br />I'd hoped that a near-decade of Bush Loving would purge that, but I guess we need a bit longer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-1826605585445802892015-01-16T18:39:58.203-08:002015-01-16T18:39:58.203-08:00Israel's has the "right" to exist to...Israel's has the "right" to exist to the moment some foreign invader raises its flag over the Knesset building. Israel, as a nation, as a concept, is no "better" than any other nation and derives its "rights" from the same "right" that any nation has; its ability to preserve its own existence.<br /><br />I yield to nobody my respect for Israel's toughness in fighting off all its neighbor's attempts to kill it off, and wish it well in those efforts. However, as a U.S. citizen I see Israel as any other state and my assessment of it and its "value" politically, diplomatically, militarily, and economically rests on how it affects my country's interests. Therefore, if Israel's "right to exist" is not in the best interests of my country, then good wishes are all it would receive, in my view.<br /><br />Callous? Yep. Guilty as charged.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-13890902481513805302015-01-16T18:34:26.180-08:002015-01-16T18:34:26.180-08:00For the record, I consider the idea of a "Jew...For the record, I consider the idea of a "Jewish" state no less loathsome than any other theocracy. The original secular-ish socialist state founded in 1948 was at least nominally nonsectarian, but after the influx of the Russian ethnics and the proliferation of the ultraorthodox the notion of spending U.S. tax dollars on Israeli dreams of a new Crusader State seem as senseless as funding Utah as a self-declared "Mormon nation"...FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-75871862380780828882015-01-16T18:29:44.761-08:002015-01-16T18:29:44.761-08:00MSR...sorry, no one...sorta-kinda repeats the poin...MSR...sorry, no one...sorta-kinda repeats the point I made in the body of the post, Al; that a lot of this jihadi nonsense is a Frankenstein monster we had a hell of a lot to do with creating. In the Forties and Fifties I get the sense that the Muslim world was very unimpressed with theocracy and religion in general. The West had just won WW2, Western science and economics looked like the "big winners" of the post-war world (and the other "winner" was Soviet communism, a "religion" in its own right but clearly NOT a theocentric one).<br /><br />So what I get from reading accounts of the period is that at least initially a hell of a lot of the Islamic portions of the Middle East were fairly secular; you had Baath parties in Syria and Iraq, a nonsectarian dictator in Iran, officially-atheistic military rule in Turkey and Egypt. I mean, yes, you had jokers like the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem trying to gin up "jihad"...but nothing like today.<br /><br />My assessment is that the West and Israel's repeated defeats and humiliations of these secular governments - along with the visible and despised corruption, venality, and incompetence of those governments - that, in effect, left the jihadis as the "last Muslims standing" against what a hell of a lot of Muslims saw as the rapacious and predatory Westerners and the neo-colonial Israelis.<br /><br />Mind I'm NOT saying that this IS what these powers are, or were...I'm saying that this is how they were perceived. Shit like Mossadegh and the Shah, and Operation Blue Bat, and the U.S. and Israeli incursions in Lebanon (and, of course, Dubya's Excellent Middle Eastern Adventure...) didn't help, of course.<br /><br />So, frankly, there's a LOT of "do no harm" we could do just by refraining from that sort of fucktardry...as well as giving a swift kicking to any idiot who suggests that the West and Islam are engaged in a "clash of civilizations".<br /><br />Vienna 1683 was a "clash of civilizations". Shooting up magazine offices and bombing jihadis ain't just not in the same league, it's not playing the same sport.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-50701891988421056852015-01-16T14:20:40.469-08:002015-01-16T14:20:40.469-08:00Were we having this discussion in central Germany ...Were we having this discussion in central Germany in 1650, Lisa, we would probably be agreeing the Catholicism (or Calvinism) were religions of blood, drenched in horror and breeding grounds for brutality and violence.<br /><br />The fact that Islam is still fighting its wars of religion now rather than 350 years ago has absolutely zero correspondence to the fundamental violence or lack of same in that faith.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-84612640287388304852015-01-16T13:25:10.441-08:002015-01-16T13:25:10.441-08:00Today Cameron posted a follow-up on his earlier po...Today Cameron posted a follow-up on his earlier post regarding Sisi's call for a revolution to modernize Islamic thought.<br /><br /> <a href="http://zenpundit.com/?p=42818" rel="nofollow">http://zenpundit.com/?p=42818</a>mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-56560806512021805892015-01-16T08:54:42.493-08:002015-01-16T08:54:42.493-08:00Aviator, In an ideal world, agreed. In the real wo...Aviator, In an ideal world, agreed. In the real world - we won't allow them to mature on their own.<br /><br />as I said, we have to change first.<br /><br />no one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com