tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post2600878625746801161..comments2023-10-30T06:31:05.501-07:00Comments on MilPub: Tragedy in AmericaFDChiefhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comBlogger138125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-47855213599633145342013-04-17T14:45:22.095-07:002013-04-17T14:45:22.095-07:00Benefits of WalnutsThere is a perception that nuts...Benefits of WalnutsThere is a perception that nuts are encouraged on <br />the paleo diet for them, but to increase the profits of these groups of foods have to be a continuous learning and growth process.<br />The whole idea that Breakfast is the most dangerous drug <br />for controlling diabetes on the market -- a problem mostly rectified by a $30 adapter.<br />Contents founds in beef, lamb or bison and variety of broths.<br />Is there any logic to eating the way our paleolithic ancestors.<br /><br /><br />Review my weblog - <a href="http://www.flixya.com/blog/5254929/How-To-Diet-Succeed" rel="nofollow">paleo beginners guide</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-201010135859883412013-04-13T19:30:57.062-07:002013-04-13T19:30:57.062-07:00For recovery, athletes are allowed to roam free ra...For recovery, athletes are allowed to roam free rather than be confined to cages in a commercial atmosphere.<br />The paleo diet produced increased weight loss, it <br />takes a long period of time. The quick contact function allows you to stay on <br />your diet. We have the answers to those questions -- and many more -- in our full review, so read on to <br />find out. Efficacy and tolerability of oral stevioside in patients with type 2 <br />diabetes or hypertension.<br /><br />My blog - <a href="http://edwino87.lovelyish.com/772643795/food---diet-meatloaf/" rel="nofollow">paleo diet what can you eat</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-32259119240072088772012-12-31T05:20:08.815-08:002012-12-31T05:20:08.815-08:00James,
After considering our exchange i wrote toda...James,<br />After considering our exchange i wrote todays post.<br />We can't even agree if we have a problem let alone a possible solution.<br />jimrangeragainstwarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02126542922536584950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-2109021035351644302012-12-30T14:06:58.333-08:002012-12-30T14:06:58.333-08:00James,
OK i concede your point EXCEPT there is not...James,<br />OK i concede your point EXCEPT there is not a relevant correlation to what happens in China that would affect our gun right discussion.<br />By widening the discussion we just make it less digestible, and it's bad enuf just discussing the US aspects of the problem<br />After 134 cmts the only thing resolved is that we all agree that we have a problem. That's the first step-let's define the problem.<br />Also we at milpub must be different as Seydlitz points out. We must keep the dialogue alive and i for one am happy that we all don't agree. If we did then why bother at all?<br />Best to you grass hopper.<br />jimjim at rangerhttp://rangeragainstwar.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-65907856734630628942012-12-30T08:40:44.599-08:002012-12-30T08:40:44.599-08:00Hey Jim, I have lived in Taiwan for more than twen...Hey Jim, I have lived in Taiwan for more than twenty years and can speak some Chinese. So I think I have a legitimate grasp of things regarding China, especially vis-a-vis the Taiwan issue. I have also travelled through China on more than one occasion but I am especially drawn to Tibet and so have seen first hand their ruthless repression of dissent. No I don't think China is better than the USA but they certainly do some things better than us. Talking to normal Chinese people they are very much like us, both good and bad. <br /><br /> My old man was a fighter pilot in Alaska (I think he flew the f-86 saber) during the Korean War so am aware of that conflict. One of his better stories was flying copilot for George Gay for TWA and meeting Joe Foss but that was another conflict!<br /><br />JamesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-42863451928355381582012-12-30T07:36:07.894-08:002012-12-30T07:36:07.894-08:00Andy-
Hopefully, there is always hope. The ideol...Andy-<br /><br />Hopefully, there is always hope. The ideological obsessions that drive all too many (either side of the aisle) has our society basically constipated on many key issues, from the role of government, to addressing violence in our society. <br /><br />One of my mentors said that the most important words in the maturation process, are "I didn't know that", as it is a sign of learning. Another mentor said that if someone claims absolute knowledge, it usually means he's too stupid or arrogant to learn. Both of those bits of wisdom give a clear insight into the morass into which our society is falling ever deeper. It is as if an open mind is a sign of weakness.Aviator47https://www.blogger.com/profile/05585964386930142907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-14542578577066989962012-12-30T06:58:34.105-08:002012-12-30T06:58:34.105-08:00Seydlitz,
I agree with your description of the po...Seydlitz,<br /><br />I agree with your description of the political problem, though I would put it a bit differently. Most people do not have the time or inclination to learn about most issues (I'm being charitable here), so their answers on a range of empirical questions are determined by their political identity, which, in turn, is often determined by partisan affiliation. So I think most people do not sense the incoherence of the two party ideologies, nor the more subtle issues you've described at length. The elites who control the narratives are increasingly detached from reality, and so I keep hoping that more people will realize the ideological contradictions they've bought into do not make much sense, but there remains little evidence of that so far.... <br /><br />The result is how you describe it - the "debate" is divided into two ideological camps which reinforce the existing narratives and those not firmly with their camp are berated "enemies" about which almost any bad thing can be assumed or said. This is a state of affairs I am very familiar with since I sit on the outside and am, at best, a heretic.<br /><br />And nothing is any different with regard to guns, except the passions are more intense and the accusations and vitriol slip off the tongue with ease and little regret. Holistic examination of the issues are most unwelcome.<br /><br />I had great hopes for the internet as a vehicle for exchanging ideas and engaging in a global "conversation" to facilitate understanding. Unfortunately, with a few exceptions, things have not turned out that way and most of it is just a more convenient method for confirmation bias.<br /><br />At least there is Milpub and a handful of other places, so perhaps there is yet some hope....Andynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-60881259070332243142012-12-29T20:06:21.052-08:002012-12-29T20:06:21.052-08:00James.
I just find it strange that you talk about ...James.<br />I just find it strange that you talk about China and compare it to the US of A.<br />Are you suggesting that we should emulate their society and be authoritarian?<br />Do you realize that 35000 Americans were killed in the Korean war opposing their communism and all related philosophy?<br />And now you seem to think they are better than us b/c they don't have weapons in civilian hands.?! Or so i understand from your cmts.<br />Samo the Nazi's. Should we adopt Hitlers gun control laws? They didn't have any school shootings in the fatherland but the ghettoes sure were unsafe for jewish kids.<br />Yeah , i know -we ain't Nazis. I remind myself of this every time i read of renditions , torture, presidentially mandated asasinations,secret prisons,endless open ended wars,preemptive invasions and secret intel budgets ans black/covert opns. etc.<br />Have you read about the 175 men wrongly convicted in Fed courts in NC based upon faulty gun control laws, or the interpretation there of by federal judges?<br />Gun laws create new classes of criminals with a simple stroke of a pen. Laws often based on faulty premise and authoritarian principles. For example-when a gun felon serves his time out completely why are his/her rights not restored automatically? No pun intended.<br />Now ain't that America???<br />Yes , i share your praise of PFK.<br />Happy new year.<br />jimrangeragainstwarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02126542922536584950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-22299778744789798112012-12-29T17:51:32.803-08:002012-12-29T17:51:32.803-08:00http://www.balloon-juice.com/2012/12/29/on-being-s...http://www.balloon-juice.com/2012/12/29/on-being-safe-with-guns/#more-122657<br /><br /><br />bbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-90837452815493049562012-12-29T12:13:21.308-08:002012-12-29T12:13:21.308-08:00Jim and and all and especially PDKhan. Thanks for...Jim and and all and especially PDKhan. Thanks for having a reasoned debate. I think Khan is right that it is too emotional an issue to be dealt with at this time. I think Mike said it above it will be a generational thing. I apologize if I pissed anyone off TOO much! <br /><br />Khan, a genuine thanks for having the balls to step up to the plate and broach the subject. Keep posting as you write some exceptional stuff.<br /><br />JamesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-33070012061388849612012-12-29T09:28:20.350-08:002012-12-29T09:28:20.350-08:00James,
I just had a 3day cognitive brain function ...James,<br />I just had a 3day cognitive brain function test done at the Mayo clinic. I rec'd a clear bill of health.<br />May i suggest the same for you as you make sweeping non-logical statements that are not realistic or factual, and could be viewed as cognitive disorder.<br />Do the chinese have the same problems that we do?<br />Are you a cultural anthropologist , or just an expert on US gun problems?<br />How do you make such sweeping generalizations as a basis for talking about specific incidents.?<br />We in America HAVE ALWAYS had access to military style guns, and to my knowledge this is not a chinese template.<br /> Was the driver driving a military style vehicle?<br />If so then why not restrict cars to using only 2 wheels. That'll cut down on military style car related deaths. That's the only solution that i see as realistic(using your expressed logic)<br />How can you equate a dude using a car with US gun violence? There is absolutely no linkage or indication of reality in that thought sequence.<br />HOW IN THE HADES can you predict/guess/surmise that the driver would have used a gun if one were available?<br />This is pure friggin' speculation based upon your misperceptions of what is reality.<br />As for the fact that you are depressed maybe you SHOULD stay away from buying a gun.<br />I really think that somebody is missing the point.<br /><br />Al,<br />When you anti-gun people talk it's ohhh sooooo logical, but when i express my point it's a rant.<br />Exactly what did i say that was a rant?<br />jim<br /><br />To all,<br />It's amazing how emotional and crazy the thinking gets when talking about gun violence. Why don't you all focus on the birth rate of minorities and the high deaths for those babies?<br />Or what about the folks that die from Doctors mistakes, or the 44,000 folks who died last year from a lack of health insurance? <br />Why don't you ask why 17000 of us kill ourselves with guns each year? And why does this happen?<br />How many folks are killed by cops every year with gun violence?<br />I say again- the hypocrisy level is overwhelming.<br />jim<br />jim at rangerhttp://rangeragainstwar.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-17215088961480526292012-12-28T10:17:05.150-08:002012-12-28T10:17:05.150-08:00There was another attempted mass murder in China t...There was another attempted mass murder in China the last day our so. A father whose daughter was killed three years earlier drove a car into a mass of students. Said car was filled with pyrotechnics and a propane tank. About ten injured children and no deaths.<br /><br />You guys are missing the point. They have the same problems we do but the difference is easy. Access to military style weapons. The fact that people on this thread (who I respect and have been following since the Intel Dump days) can't see it is really depressing. <br /><br />Someone up-thread mentioned that it will be a generational change is correct. For our time, to quote Chief, WASF. But I am just pissing into the wind, sigh.<br /><br />I would like to here Publius's take. I miss his thoughts. I guess we can't come to an agreement on this issue at this time. Maybe our children will. <br /><br />Hopefully, James.<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-81131728737823528432012-12-28T06:22:48.642-08:002012-12-28T06:22:48.642-08:00eydlitz
My apologies for not catching your nuance...eydlitz<br /><br />My apologies for not catching your nuances.<br /><br /><i><b>Why this ever recurring politics of "faith"?</b></i><br /><br />Probably because it is easier for the Great Unwashed to blindly act on "faith" than reason? The scary part about the latter, is that one can "learn" something, and learning is the enemy of ignorance. "Faith" is never wrong, in the eyes of the "believer". Life becomes simpler when you are never wrong.<br /><br />I differ from you in the notion that all this is merely "pushed down from the top". Used by the top, perhaps, to further their agenda, but they pander more than lead or inform. The housewife who suddenly discovered that people need semi-auto weapons to be prepared for when "the government goes tyrranical" came to that conclusion by listening to friends speak, not based on something from the top. She said she was, "Willing to consider a ban until she head that", and then changed her mind.<br /><br />What we need is a Significant Emotional Event the magnitude of the Great Depression. The majority, probably in fear, suddenly became more socio-centric than ego-centric, even if for selfish reasons. But it takes thought to see the abstract personal benefits in a socio-centric view, and "faith" alone won't accomplish that.<br /><br />Ever speak to an "believer" in pre-destination who was convinced he or she <b>wasn't</b> among the chosen? The line between hope and absolute certainty can get very dulled.<br /><br />The simple fact is that the general dialog on most serious societal topics in American society is made dysfunctional by "faith", sacred cows, fear and greed, salted with a little touch of surrender by folks who really do know better. Other than that, we are doing fine.Aviator47https://www.blogger.com/profile/05585964386930142907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-10920124064475889432012-12-28T04:25:33.505-08:002012-12-28T04:25:33.505-08:00Al-
I think you misunderstand my perspective here...Al-<br /><br />I think you misunderstand my perspective here. I'm not arguing against gun control, but stating that the current political relations preclude the formation of policies which reflect the "national interest". To use your roof analogy, we no longer own the house where the leak is taking place. It has been taken away from us and is being systematically deconstructed to be replaced by something else, which may bear the label "our house" but will not really belong to us.<br /><br />I would support whatever rules were implemented by the state providing there were an actual debate, but that is not going to happen. The two sides are already using this tragedy to rally their supporters and reinforce the status quo, essentially two big "sucker rallies" as they were called back during the Great Depression. This is the perfect issue for this type of bait and switch scam, lots of emotion and lots of "good & evil" hobgoblins to shake your fists at. The GOP will use this to reconsolidate their support among their rubes after the shellacking they took in November. Ditto with the Demos . . . The "tribalism" you mention is being pushed from the top for obvious reasons. Which leads to where exactly?<br /><br />Then there's the sociological issue of what drives young men to do this, which jim and I have both attempted to put in focus, but then are painted as being simply "pro-gun" . . . and the discussion moved on . . .<br /><br />Finally, when I commented about "a better fix on it than any of you" I was referring to my fellow barkeeps, not the other commentators . . . Paul's comment was the lightening rod to what had been building up since my last comment.<br /><br />What I felt concerning this thread was not anger, but more frustration, (that tempered greatly by the fact that it has been a great Christmas for us). Why has it been that I cannot get my ideas across clearly? Why is it that people I respect don't see the severity of our current political dysfunction? Why this ever recurring politics of "faith"? It reminds me of Thucydides and when language loses all meaning due to political dissolution. I had been planning a thread on strategic theory during a period of political dissolution and had been finding difficulty in how to put it together. This thread would be a difficult one to top in that regard, which is a compliment to PF Khans and all who have commented here, but a damning verdict on the state of our political community . . .seydlitz89https://www.blogger.com/profile/15431952900333460640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-68252073846197305762012-12-28T00:19:54.793-08:002012-12-28T00:19:54.793-08:00(continued)
Once upon a time, it was easy to hav...(continued)<br /><br /><br />Once upon a time, it was easy to have a tribe. Territorial dominance, and bloodlines are pretty strong adhesives. Today, in the US, the "purity" of our bloodlines has been pretty much reduced to skin color. Sure makes it simple. Territorial dominance is still a bit of a binding agent, but there is nowhere near the homogeneity in the current population of Mississippi as there was in, let's say, the Natchez People who originally populated the area. There are, indeed, some "Godless Liberals" living in MS.<br /><br />So, we may be nibbling around the edges in this thread, but at least we are nibbling. But I suggest we reflect a bit on how "emotional" it got when the "MilPub Tribe" stumbled upon a topic that is not universally agreed upon by the tribal members. Run Away! Run Away!<br /><br />Are we wrestling with an American culture that is simply frustrated by the inability to form a single tribe, yet clueless as to the responsibilities and conformity that tribes involve? The eminent Canadian historian, Pierre Burton, discussed the down side of tribal behavior using the case of Tecumseh's failed efforts to achieve a lasting confederacy of the Native American tribes to preserve some semblance of sovereign territory for the Native Americans in general. Basically a "United we stand, divided we fall" concept, and the divided Native Americans fell like a ton of bricks.<br /><br />From whence does this crap arise? I’m not sure, but there are enough examples of peaceful, inclusive cultures to make one think that mankind is capable of less violence. And, some of those examples were formerly bloodthirsty and aggressive states. One could try to support this inherent violent nature by offering that “Christianity” practiced “conversion by the sword”, “witch hunts” and “The Grand Inquisition”, but that is not universally true, as such was not the case with Eastern Christianity, just Western. Did Rome, and not human nature, eternally corrupt us? Too simplistic.<br /><br />Chief: I am not convinced that man is inherently violent. I am convinced that when gathered into groups and cultures, man can amplify and glorify, for self gain, violent means. I am also convinced that a culture can find equally satisfying self gain in pulling together toward a common goal that eschews violence.<br /><br />jim and seydlitz. Rest assured I have no a priore desire to arbitrarily and capriciously "take away" anything from you or anyone else. However, I do respect you sufficiently to expect we discuss every topic under the sun on the basis of no "sacred cows", and proceed from there.<br />Aviator47https://www.blogger.com/profile/05585964386930142907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-70349227475316584982012-12-28T00:02:32.000-08:002012-12-28T00:02:32.000-08:00seydlitz-
If water is leaking down from the ceili...seydlitz-<br /><br />If water is leaking down from the ceiling, very often, the entry point on the roof is nowhere near the visible exit point inside. Nor does that tell us if it’s a leaky roof or a leaking water pipe. bg's mention of rape did, indeed, open, not necessarily "new ground" but a new point of inquiry into what the gun discussion is trying to address - violence against our fellow man. Jim made a valuable contribution by opening the discussion of "acceptable violence" against children - as long as they are in "enemy lands".<br /><br />So, rather than simply patching a piece of sheetrock, we are crawling around in the attic looking at a variety of issues, albeit in a less than focused manner. How the hell can we be focused when the subject is violence - by our very neighbor? Sure, we can say that the perpetrator is not "one of us", and thus what we “hold dear” is not the problem. The first person plural lacks precision in that regard. Kinda like when the Mrs says, "We need to do something about that leaky ceiling." Her part of "we" ends long before the act of crawling into the attic.<br /><br />Funny thing is that the "We" in "We The People" was never an all inclusive "We". It did not include slaves nor Native Americans, and only partially included women. "We" are not an inclusive "We" in our values, just in our marketing pitches and self-congratulatory delusions. The American "Melting Pot" notion is a joke. What the WASPS meant was that the non-WASPS were simply to take on, or at least mimic, the values of WSAPdom. Thus, my grandma’s forbidding my generation speaking any Italian, lest we end up with an accent and be treated as an “outsider”, as she and her children were. If we were, indeed, a "Melting Pot", the resulting mixture would be ever changing with each new ingredient. People of color are at a particular disadvantage, since their most easily identifiable physical characteristic cannot be changed under the WASP definition "melting". Eternal outliers – that even The Borg cannot assimilate .<br /><br />"Americans" really want to be tribal, but have neither the balls nor wherewithal to do so, no less admit it’s their goal. Further, the “Real American” tribe has no geographical area to dominate. States Rights, selectively applied by most proponents, is really Tribal Rights, but so far, the ability to keep the population of Tribal Lands pure has failed . We don't want to find a common ground with other groups, because common ground is not tribally exclusive. And most Americans desirous of being in a tribe don't want the responsibilities that tribal membership affords (c.f. - my comment on "Rights vs Responsibilities above). So we just create surrogate and pseudo tribes to support our individual desires, often investing more energy defining what we are against than what we are for - values that promote self gain, not tribal gain.<br /><br />Hell, even the notion of "Christianity" in the US is quite tribal. <a href="http://hirr.hartsem.edu/research/fastfacts/fast_facts.html#denom" rel="nofollow">Hartford Seminary offers</a> that there are 217 formal "denominations" in the US. However, viewing American Christianity in purely "denominational" terms gives an inaccurate picture, since the second largest population of non-Roman Catholics in the US are members of one of the 35,000 plus "independent" congregations around the country that choose to have affiliation with no other congregation. 16 Million people who find 217 choices of affiliation insufficient. Try to find a similar manifestation in another "culture".<br /><br />(to be continued)Aviator47https://www.blogger.com/profile/05585964386930142907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-26210941409898087632012-12-27T16:37:12.278-08:002012-12-27T16:37:12.278-08:00True, s-89.
If I read our jim's opinion right...True, s-89.<br /><br />If I read our jim's opinion rightly, even if we get an assault weapons ban along with the restrictions on magazine size, not much will change for a long while. With a 4-year record of Obama's actions to look at, I don't even see the likelihood of that.<br /><br />I would like to be surprised.<br /><br />I agree with Chief & Al on what ought to be. If I ruled the world, you'd only have small capacity handguns and bolt action rifles and shotguns, and registration/titling along with it.<br /><br />I'll reiterate that the only method whereby we'll ger positive action on guns or any other issue troubling the public mind is massive and consistent demonstrations spurred on by disgust with the status quo or a sea change of politics in this country.<br /><br />What's the immigration policy where you're at?<br /><br />Just halfway kidding, or not.<br /><br />PS Aviator, true what you quoted from my link, but my greater concern was the little kiddies crawling about all over the picture. Plus the fact that this not-very-well off family was considering purchasing an unnecessary expensive item.<br /><br /><br />bb Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-42389634297059496992012-12-27T15:38:53.160-08:002012-12-27T15:38:53.160-08:00Paul-
I've sat back and read all the various ...Paul-<br /><br />I've sat back and read all the various comments since my last one, and what exactly has been accomplished? Have we come any further in this discussion? If so, I don't see it . . . sorry.<br /><br />Andy's commented, and that's good as usual, as have basil and bg, but have we turned over any new ground? . . . and then you say that that's due to "generations" . . . as if the politics are assumed to be always the same? Who's blowing smoke now . . . ?<br /><br />Imo, jim's got a much better fix on it than any of you . . .<br /><br />My best friend back home got an M-4 as a Christmas gift, a person who was introduced to weapons by me . . . who had little interest in weapons until I introduced them to him . . . but I was not the one who bought him this gift . . . it is not generational, since we see it happening across generations . . . it is something else. Essentially "bait and switch", imo . . . which is why ya'll are having such a hard time dealing with it . . . <br /><br />This "debate" will go nowhere . . . seydlitz89https://www.blogger.com/profile/15431952900333460640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-16883152460817339432012-12-27T14:37:59.458-08:002012-12-27T14:37:59.458-08:00As a parting shot, let me say that most of us who ...As a parting shot, let me say that most of us who follow or contribute to MilPub are, to put it gently, past our prime. Nor does it help that we are overwhelmingly male and white. What our cohort thinks of as the norm hardly counts, as witness the acceptance of gay marriage, marijuana and Draconian measures against drunk driving, to name three of the changes that came about without the courtesy of asking our permission. In short, gentlemen, we have become superfluous, like the old man in an early Thomas Mann story. The fellow was hobbling by a cemetery when knocked down by a bicyclist, who sped away without so much as a backward glance. <br /> <br />In England and Wales guns in the hands of criminals resulted in the death of 39 people in 2008 and 2009. In 2009 the United States 39,000 homicides were recorded and experienced by the victims and their families. The NRA and NRA fellow-travelers have a lot of explaining to do, as one can see from the impassioned arguments on this blog. And it’s sad, because those of us who grew up during the industrial age, the time when men (and not robotic machines) worked and crafted metal, find beauty in firearms.<br /> <br />I once had a collection Nambu 8-mm pistols ranged from a beautifully finished 1937 model to the sheerest junk in 1944. But it seems that such relics and their more lethal modern counterparts are going the way of smoking and three-martini lunches. Each generation must make its own arrangements. <br /> <br />Podunk Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-18824967195044931412012-12-27T10:48:06.690-08:002012-12-27T10:48:06.690-08:00bg-
The gun issue we have been discussing here ha...bg-<br /><br />The gun issue we have been discussing here has been, for most of us, primarily discussed in terms of their involvement in violence. Thus, your comment is spot on, as far as relevance. <b>Pure and simple, rape is a crime of violence</b>. The US is a violent society. Hell, rape is an issue at the service academies, which are alleged bastions of honor and virtue. Many military women claim that rape goes unpunished because they are afraid to file a complaint, as the complaint will only result in further suffering (psychological assault?).<br /><br />Deterrence by legislation is only effective if the individual sees the following costs occurring in the decision making process: <i>Detection, apprehension, adjudication, conviction and finally punishment</i>, and then concludes that the unlawful act offers less benefit than the costs, if any. Add "the heat of passion" often involved in violence to the formula, and even that long chain of events before there are consequences becomes obscure.<br /><br />I am willing to bet that there is a greater element of our culture's violent nature fueling violent video games, than those games creating violent natures. However, the two probably go hand in hand. Sort of a regenerative feedback loop, amplifying things in susceptible individuals, reinforcing it in some others.<br /><br />As I wrote above, we need to look at both the <b>causes</b> and <b>means</b> of violence. A fair part, I hate to say, is in our championing of the rights of the individual trumping the collective well being. We are pretty much of similar "seed corn" as Canada, yet significantly more violent. The US was "birthed" by an act of violence, Canada by peaceful legislation. Probably could start there.<br /><br />We say we are a "nation of laws", yet we act like a "nation of personal desire". While I accept Chief's premise that mankind has a violent streak, all too many cultures have shown the ability to tamp that down significantly, without resorting to so called "draconian measures".<br /><br />I guess we would have to begin by admitting that the US is a violent culture, has been for a long time, and appears to be becoming increasingly so. No hiding behind "they are the violent ones, not me". It's time to include everyone in "We the People", and honestly address the problem.Aviator47https://www.blogger.com/profile/05585964386930142907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-66613139172108421682012-12-27T07:36:38.296-08:002012-12-27T07:36:38.296-08:00Al: Roger that.
And, since I didn't actually ...Al: Roger that.<br /><br />And, since I didn't actually bother to go back and read <i>Heller</i> before I posted my reply to jim, here are some interesting bits worth pondering before we consider this decision the absolute final word in keeping and bearing every variety of arms. All the quotes below are from Justice Scalia, not exactly an internationally recognized hippie bunny-hugger:<br /><br /><i>“Nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill...laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools...laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.”</i><br /><br />He also noted that laws banning <i>“dangerous and unusual weapons”</i> are <i>“another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms.”</i> He gave a very specific example: <i>“M-16 rifles and the like.”</i><br /><br />During oral arguments Scalia stated <i>“I don’t know that a lot of people have machine guns or armor-piercing bullets, I think that’s quite unusual.”</i><br /><br />So Antonin is with me; yay, Antonin! Another round, buddy!FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-10694398991122790332012-12-27T05:47:35.298-08:002012-12-27T05:47:35.298-08:00Ok, for those still following this thread, I want ...Ok, for those still following this thread, I want to throw in a tangent. If it needs to be it's own post, I think it is worth doing it.<br /><br />My argument about the gun violence is based around the idea that we have bigger problems in America that aren't being covered in the media, so we ignore them and focus on the statistical outliers. Check this out:<br /><br />http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestory/2012/12/2012122472117251850.html<br /><br />Rape capitals of the world in 2010:<br /><br />South Africa – it has one of the highest rates, with 277,000 reported cases. The same year a survey by the Medical Research Council found that one in four men admitted to raping someone<br /><br />United States – more than 84,000 rape cases were reported. Criminals face life behind bars, and in some states, castration is an option<br /><br />India – reported a little more than 22,000 cases<br /><br />United Kingdom – 16,000 cases were reported. A suspect found guilty, faces a maximum conviction of life in prison<br /><br />Mexico – nearly 15,000 cases were reported. In some parts of the country, penalties may consist of a few hours in jail, or minor fines<br /><br />Germany – counts the highest number of reported rape cases in Europe, just under 8,000<br /><br />Russia – almost 5,000 cases were reported, and the crime holds a punishment of 4 -10 years in jail<br /><br />I don't know for a fact if AJ's facts are good (UN has the same numbers). But if they are, this is despicable. The U.S. is 2nd in the world only to South Africa in rapes?? And these stats, if accurate, are NOT normalized to population (to be fair, many rapes go unreported in al countries). What are we doing about this??? <br /><br />The answer is clearly nothing, but what should we do? An interesting trend, the US, according to AJ, has some of the strictess penalties, yet, still have among the highest rates. What does that say about legal deterrence of violent crimes?bgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-26619800717890538122012-12-26T07:52:11.708-08:002012-12-26T07:52:11.708-08:00Chief-
As to what the professional NASCAR guy can...Chief-<br /><br />As to what the professional NASCAR guy can do on the track versus he and the general population do on the road, I offer this quote from the news article bb linked above:<br /><i><b><br /> Michael James, part owner of Inman Arms LLC, in Inman, said it was much the same in his store. He said the AR-15 seemed to be one of the more popular choices since last Friday.<br /><br />"People come in that don't know anything about that gun, but they think they want one," he said. </b></i><br /><br />nuff said?Aviator47https://www.blogger.com/profile/05585964386930142907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-76821089385372217672012-12-26T07:28:07.197-08:002012-12-26T07:28:07.197-08:00And one further observation re: DC v Heller: it...And one further observation re: <i>DC v Heller</i>: it's hilarious to listen to wingnuts fulminate about "legislating from the bench!" until said "legislation" goes their way. It'd be entertaining to hear the screams over <i>Heller</i> if it had gone the OTHER way, wouldn't it?<br /><br />Andy: Well reasoned, and I agree. But let me posit the case somewhat differently. You couldn't install governors on vehicles to keep speeds down to 65 simply because the physics doesn't work; the governor would prevent you from, say, overtaking or hillclimbing.<br /><br />But in this case I think you can extend the analogy to the vehicles - or the weapons - themselves. The NASCAR guy has proven that he can handle his "stock" car safely on an oval track. But we don't let him drive it on the interstate, right? Same with the F1 guy and his Ferrari, or the Bradley driver and his M3.<br /><br />What I'm suggesting is that we consider the possibility that certain types of weapons (and types of magazines) are simply not compatible with "domestic tranquility", and that, as such, would no more be "infringing" on the right to bear arms <i>per se</i> than preventing the privvit from driving his Brad down I-5 would be...<br /><br />Okay, seriously, last comment on this subject. Guh-bye, all.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-381917167978264683.post-69502979466045869022012-12-26T06:40:23.908-08:002012-12-26T06:40:23.908-08:00The supremes have spoken as has the 7th us circuit...<i>The supremes have spoken as has the 7th us circuit court.THE 2ND AMENDMENT IS A PERSONAL and individual right. It ain't just about the militia.<br />Why do we ignore this fact</i><br /><br />Contempt for something is not ignoring it; the SCOTUS opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 is a fucking joke, a wingnut pity party completely disconnected to the actual language of the 2A and the clear intent of the amendment.<br /><br />In a sane polity the Congress would have laughed along and immediately passed an addition to the U.S. Code nullifying this idiotic opinion.<br /><br />Look, jim; if dead kids and firefighters and all won't change your mind I sure can't. My position here is functionally the same as Al's; I've done what I can short of active rebellion to change my government's nasty business overseas. And I'm trying here, as I'm trying in Salem and D.C., to change my government's position on the firearms free-for-all we have here in the U.S. I don't know whether I can or will be able to do anything, but I'm gonna try, and I see pushing for some sort of sensible firearms regulation as part of that effort.<br /><br />Your response seems to be, simply, well, those kiddos and firefighters and all will just have to die because the 30-round magazine is a Good Thing.<br /><br />I'm not going to continue to try and change your mind on that. But you haven't convinced me to change mine, either. And that, I'm afraid, is where we're going to have to stay. FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.com